****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

Don Knox and Warren Pickett 0:00

Hi, I'm Don Knox and I'm Warren Pickett, and you're listening to A Shark’s Perspective.

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:21

Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark’s Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:24

I am Kenneth Kinney, but friends call me "Shark". I'm a keynote speaker, a strategist, a shark diver, host of the show and your Chief Shark Officer.

Kenneth Kinney 0:33

Where and how are events evolving? It's been a roller coaster since COVID. Especially when you consider production costs, travel costs and attendees expectations. And the ROI expectations get higher and higher as well. But creating extraordinary event experiences takes a lot of strategy, the right planning, audience engagement, great content, great speakers, and a lot more than you have to ask what are you and your team doing to amplify the event experience in this brave new events world.

Kenneth Kinney 1:02

Event industry veterans Don Knox, the chief of client happiness in Warren Pickett, the chief champion of ideas are the cofounders of Event Foundry, which helps amplify the event experience for brands that need to navigate today's events connect buyers and sellers make the most of limited time at an event and effectively extend marketing and communications efforts.

Kenneth Kinney 1:22

And on this episode, we'll discuss the events industry; what brands media companies bizdev, and attendees want from an event; the challenges for brands creating a strategy for the best ROI for conferences and events; building community; the unique flavor of each conference experience how those badges and name tags come in handy, creating memorable experiences including with your employees; the new nimbleness of events coming faster and faster; Lobbycon; Zoom; hugging a TSA agent; force majeure clauses; Lego movies; cats and dogs living together; and a lot, lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:54

So let's tune into two events industry veterans with a shark who loves to speak at a lot of events on this episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

[intro music]

Kenneth Kinney 2:06

Don and Warren Welcome to a shark's perspective. Welcome back. Warren, who was on the show way back on episode eight. But would you please both of you give us a brief overview of your career and background today.

Don Knox 2:17

Absolutely. Shark, it's great to be on the show. And thank you for having us. I'm Don Knox and I am one of the cofounders of event foundry and you know, my background is in event production, event management, and Event Marketing. I did start out in the publishing and ad sales business way back in the day. I've been doing this for over 30 years. And as I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, a lot of publishers end up in the events business. So that's how I fell into the events business. And have been at it for quite some time. And that's a that's a brief one for me.

Kenneth Kinney 2:56

Yeah, Warren, I know we've known each other for years, you hired me to be a speaker several times. What's your background?

Warren Pickett 3:02

Yeah, thanks, Kenneth. And thanks for having us back. And for participating again, just like Don, I'm co founder of Event Foundry. And we have a steep passion and love for everything in the event space. And Don, and I actually go way back to the publishing date. So I started in publishing as well and in the b2b media side. But I've always had a passion for kind of bringing community together, whether it's in print online, and certainly around events. And, you know, my background is in journalism. So I have sort of that content bent. I always look at the event as an educational experience, and helping people to really gain insight into what's happening in an industry with the trends with the competition, in certainly bringing people together through networking and those opportunities.

Kenneth Kinney 3:53

Well, so we'll start off with questions that I want to ask you as part of the show. You know, I think this also is very important to me, as a speaker, somebody that's been in the speaking business for a while somebody's been helping plan events and doing these things as well. And I think this is a wonderful topic that affects a lot of people, whether you're on the brand side and agency side, professional speaker, like me, or wherever you are in the world. But let's talk Warren, kind of tell us where you think events are evolving. And what's changed after COVID?

Warren Pickett 4:21

Yeah, you know, it's certainly been a roller coaster kind of going through COVID. And coming the other out the other side. I think that technology has changed a lot. And it's sort of rapidly, you know, changed. People for a long time saw events as pretty cut and dry that you would have this cookie cutter approach. He would always do things the same way, year after year, and attract the same audience. And I think one thing COVID taught us was that people became much more digital savvy, they became to have higher expectations when it comes to their time and where they're spending it. And so I think event producers have had to become a lot more you know, In tune to what the the customers want, you know, what do the attendees look for in their events? Are they willing to travel? Are they doing a hybrid or a virtual, you know, engagement versus just an in person model. And again, you know, kind of going back to COVID, I think in all aspects of life, the attendee behavior shifted, right, we saw people just becoming much more comfortable doing business online jumping on, you know, video calls, they started to want to have deeper, richer experiences, whether that was at, you know, online, at the grocery store, buying that pair of sneakers, or certainly at events, they wanted more, you know, to, to walk away from an event with, but I think we've also come out of it, you know, going into sort of the, the inflationary times that we now live in, we came out of COVID, and people became much more cost conscious, they become a little bit more travel, reticent, unless it's absolutely necessary. And so I think, you know, between the technology and the way that event producers can now provide an offering that is much more enriched, but also trying to to understand and meet the attendees expectations for what that would look like.

Kenneth Kinney 6:19

Well, speaking of attendees expectations, let me tell you my thoughts too, because the way I see coming out of let's say, when things started to open back up to the latter half of 2022, and beyond, people aren't as excited about getting on a zoom virtual conference, maybe they would love that in 2020, or to see the appetite for people being back in person. And the technology can also be expensive for people to put on a hybrid event or a virtual event. It can be you know, do it. Well, it goes way beyond just everybody jumping on a zoom call, sir, how do you sort of tackle that? Because while the technology is caught up it also there's a cost and then there is the appetite there for people to really be in person or watching online?

Warren Pickett 7:06

And I think from my perspective, I think it comes down to what are those expectations, you know, both from the attendee, but also from somebody who is exhibiting or sponsoring an event? You know, certainly it comes down to am I seeing the return on my investment on my money on my time. And, you know, if you're providing something that is a must attend, and people really see the value and understand that they're able to get out of it what they want to, then virtual, or a hybrid model works really well. But a lot of times, you know, we missed the handshake, we missed the hugs, we missed those personal moments that we we can get at an in person event. And it doesn't always translate obviously to an online only offering.

Kenneth Kinney 7:53

Yeah, I think I hugged the TSA agent. And the first time I was traveling to go back to an in person event. So hugs and high fives were, you know, well ready for my thoughts. Well done. Let's let's talk about what the challenges are that brands have with participating in events other than, you know, just the economics. I know, everybody is Warren just says thinking about the ROI. But everybody in their grandmother was really throwing together an in person event. And now they're having to really rethink that not only from a cost perspective, but whether or not they have the people because a lot of those event planners, they all get laid off. I mean, a lot of change, took grownup jobs or did something else, right. But you don't necessarily have the same back end structure that she did, and whether or not brands can afford to do it or want to do and I've seen a lot of people start to move those to virtual events, just to have something to have something. But really, when you think about the value for the brand, also, you also have to think about truly what's the value for the attendee.

Don Knox 8:50

Right. Exactly. Yeah, I think you hit it, hit it on the head, Kenneth. It's a lack of bandwidth and resources, for sure. You know, knowing that, you know, you've got to put an actual strategy behind this, at least, you know, from a brand perspective, if you're going to invest this amount of money in participating in an event, whether it's a hybrid words, you know, in person or otherwise, it takes it takes time to really invest and make sure that you've got adequate support and adequate resources internally. And I mentioned strategy, because that's a lot of times, you know, one of the last things that, sadly, a lot of brands think of and think about, you know, in advance of planning for their appearance or attendance or exhibition at an event. It's, you know, they get into this kind of autopilot mode. But I think, you know, everybody's being much more cognizant of the fact that, okay, events are coming back. So we're really needing to take this a little bit more seriously, even though we have fewer resources. Let's try to figure out exactly what kind of ROI we can expect from an event. You know,

Kenneth Kinney 10:05

I love the point on strategy, how do you help somebody sort of plan together a strategy, so that you think about an event rather than just sending a dozen different bizdev people to come back with some leads?

Don Knox 10:16

Yep. Which is what you know, sending the wrong people has been, you know, classic mistake for forever. You know, I mean, we've all walked by the booth where the guy or gal is, you know, playing a game on their phone or whatever, they're just not engaged.

Kenneth Kinney 10:33

Well, here's one more the group that Warren used to work for, they had a website that had a lot of companies like this have websites, where they'll they'll produce a letter for you that you can send to your boss and say, here's why this event is good for you. And then you put your name and, you know, sign it and email it on to whoever it is. And I was thinking about that was strategy, that strategy looks much different as to what I would get as an attendee, or what a business would get anymore. So how do you help them plan for that?

Don Knox 11:01

Yeah. So well, that's, that's really what our whole company is based on. I mean, we created this agency to try and help brands get the most out of their present, we call it amplifying the event experience, which really just means, you know, you've got to take this seriously. You know, that these costs are significant. And, you know, we try to work with everyone, whether you're an exhibitor or sponsor, or if you're just attending to network, really, you know, what type of focus do you have on setting the stage literally, you know, figuratively and literally, for being at the event and getting the most out of it. Pre promotion is a huge thing, obviously, on site, you want to make sure that you have a strategy of, you know, I mean, a classic example is, as an attendee, you know, you want to make sure that your boss knows that you are going to visit these 12 clients who have exhibits, right. And you, you better make sure that you go to those booths, and come back with something meaningful. You know, we want to arm everyone, whether you're an exhibitor or a sponsor, or an attendee, to make sure that you're prepared. And that you you've got a plan of action, essentially, we, we try to shine a spotlight on every, you know, every aspect, you know, every step of the process. Sure, and make sure that you're thinking that brands are mainly thinking about, you know, what, are they going to actually get out of it?

Kenneth Kinney 12:30

Well, Warren, you know, you're a veteran of the events industry, what are the challenges that you really see these people facing today, when pulling together events, especially when compared to what you were doing a few years ago, running an event?

Warren Pickett 12:44

Yeah, and I think things have definitely changed, you know, regardless of kind of how you touch events, and what role you play, I think, you know, just the, the entire environment has changed and shifted since COVID. You know, we talked about the economics obviously earlier, but the cost of everything just continues to increase. And that flies in the face of a lot of brands, a lot of companies where their budgets continue to shrink. You know, we read almost daily about companies, they're tightening their strings, they're, in some cases laying off staff. And so they have less to work with, they have to make more out of the resources they have. So I think that's one big challenge that brands have is how do you get the most out of the resources that you have? And, you know, use those wisely. When you're thinking about your event strategy? I think, you know, for every type of event, every type of event producer is kind of looking at the Fall and thinking, Okay, what's it going to be now that we've gotten past COVID, we've all had multiple boosters. We're now looking at variants, we are now potentially looking at new viruses that are coming out, you know, it presents a landscape of uncertainty to some extent. And so as we go into the fall and winter, certainly the event cycle in the fall, I think, you know, the challenge is how do you make sure that you plan an event that, you know, people are going to attend that people feel safe and comfortable attending, and, you know, not risking themselves, not risking their family to any sort of exposure that they're going to take home. And, you know, that goes back to obviously the beginning of COVID When we first started to see this happen, and we're all all a little bit better armed or a little bit better prepared. But I think health and safety is definitely a challenge. It's definitely a concern that we'll continue to face for the near future. For anybody who has traveled to summer I think people understand that air travel is not quite as fun as it sometimes has been in the past. And you know, for somebody who is having to hop on a plane having to rent a car or having to You know, arrange a hotel room, there are certainly there has to be a little bit more planning a little bit more forethought into what you're doing so that you don't end up stranded somewhere. I had a former colleague who literally just traveled cross country, and it took him 20 hours to get home from an event. So, you know, I think people definitely in the back of their minds, they're having to take into consideration kind of, okay, I have to be at this event, I know, I want to go, I want to be there. But I've got to make sure I do it wisely. You know, to avoid anything that doesn't need to happen. And the last thing I would throw in there is just, you know, kind of from event producer standpoint, we knew that when kind of COVID started to look a little bit under control, and things started opening up again, the people were sort of chomping at the bit to get back together, they were looking for opportunities to get out and experience things again. And that's locally from going to a restaurant or going to a concert. But it also meant, you know, from a business standpoint of going to events again. And so you know, there was this mad dash to try and find venues and secure space and do all of that. And obviously, that's changed a little bit. But Kenneth as a professional speaker, you know that events go through cycles, you definitely see that those spring events, you see those fall events. And a lot of times things fill up quickly. And it can be a challenge for the event producers, just to make sure that they have all the pieces in place to make sure that their event is successful, that they meet their customer expectations, whether that's the attendees or the exhibitors and sponsors, and that everybody has a good experience so that they can say, hey, let's do this again soon. Right?

Kenneth Kinney 16:55

I just I think there's so many things dating back to the good old days of 2019. Back when there wasn't a hand sanitizer at every event, you know, all the lunches weren't hermetically sealed, right? Yep. And when most of the world who was going to an event didn't understand what a force majeure clause was, you know, right now, now, that's common knowledge to everybody who's had to argue with a hotel or venue as to what's going to happen if you just think of a tornado going through the lobby. That's one thing Oh, COVID? That'll never happen. Right. Right. And then we had it. So Don, how does event foundry come into the picture to help your clients with addressing a lot of that?

Don Knox 17:33

Yeah, well, I touched on this a little bit earlier. We are there to shine a spotlight on every step of the process, as companies are trying to plan for their presence at at an event or at an at a conference. So ideally, event foundry comes into the picture early, working with a team that is trying to prepare. So pre show promotions, you know, I mean, a lot of these things are kind of low hanging fruit, most companies know they have to do a lot of these things, whether they're done very well or efficiently or comprehensively is another question. So we come in as a resource as an as an agency service and resource to help them really nailed down what those promotions are going to look like what that messaging is going to look like to make sure that they're reaching out to the right audience with the right message, in order to get the right audience and the right, you know, attract the right audience to the event, a lot of a lot of brands leave it up to the event organizer, and call it a day. You know, there there are, of course, other shows that are more buyer seller driven. And brands are very focused on making sure that they get the right buyers there, you know, to attend the show, and they, they base their success on the number of deals that they're closing, or a number of transactions that they're completing at the event. But we come in to help with all of that marketing and messaging pre show. During the show, we're also a resource to again, make sure that, you know, salespeople are taking full advantage of what's happening. You know, we offer sales training, we offer all the on site promotion, material and collateral that you would, you would expect to have we handle producing media kits and you know, all types of collateral that you that you might need. And then of course, post show is probably the area where most companies falter the most, which is you know, everybody's exhausted. Everybody gets back and they're like, you know, I got my business cards, I did my job. But that's really where, you know, the results begin to happen. And you want to make sure that you know, you're focused on analyzing the metrics, looking at how much actual ROI you're you're getting out of the event, and to continue that dialogue with everyone that you've that, and make sure that it just doesn't stop at the end of that show, you know, with your your final cocktail in the in the bar in the lobby, and you want to make sure that that dialogue and relationship building and really community building begins. I mean, we we look at it, we approach it from that perspective, like everyone is really every brand is trying to build a community, or at least they should be, they should be looking at it that way. It's not just, you know, how many deals that I closed? Or how many cards did I collect? But are you thinking about all of those months in between the first and the second show, or you know, the show that you were just at and the next show, and a lot of companies do so many, they can't even begin to wrap their brain around all of that. And that gets back to the resources issue. But, you know, we come in, especially with companies that are lacking in those resources, that might have smaller staffs that might have, you know, a founder or a president who's wearing the marketing hat and the PR hat and you know, every other hat, and really try to come in and pick up that slack. And just make sure that we we help them

Kenneth Kinney 21:10

the way I set this up earlier, I was sort of thinking about how a lot of us are looking for events to come back. But it takes momentum, and it's going to take a lot of momentum to get 23 and beyond back to where 2019 was a lot of people say it will never get back to where it was. But what do you think the advantages are participating in the market where we are today, whether it's virtually or in person to turn out a greater event than you necessarily had before?

Warren Pickett 21:36

Yeah, it's a great question, Kenneth. And, you know, it takes me back to a conversation I think, Don, I had a couple of weeks ago, we were talking to a fellow industry colleague, and I felt he really nailed it on the head when he said, you know, events give you an opportunity that no other marketing, no other advertising, no other promotion has going to give you, you know, you really get, obviously the face to face time, right? Hopefully you're there in person, but at least hybrid or virtual, but you're you're getting some sort of connection with people. And like Don said, as a brand, you should be trying to build your own community. And that's the first stepping stone to do that. Companies have to be present. And, you know, be in it to win it sort of, they've got to take that attitude that if they're not there. And let's say their competitors are there, they're missing out, you know, they're they're not taking advantage of an opportunity that the industry has given them. There are so many types of events that are out there some that are produced by associations, and they're produced by publishers, some that are, you know, entirely brand driven. But each one of them has a different opportunity that it presents for an exhibitor or for a sponsor, for an attendee, to really engage with the industry, right. But you've got to be there, you've got to have a presence to it. You know, I think one of the big advantages of being at an event is that it kind of levels the playing field, it gives you insight into what are your competitors doing, you can see that firsthand. You know, you can, depending on on the relationship you might have with your competitor, you can go over and talk to them, but you can at least walk by their booth, you can see what they're doing, who they're attracting, what are their giveaways, you know, what literature are they putting out there in the market, and understand their products and services? And, you know, yes, you can go surf somebody's website, but you're not gonna get the same insight that you would at an event about what the competition is doing. And likewise, you know, the, the events personally from from my own standpoint, you know, I always love the educational side. But I love to hear about the trends I love to hear about what are the insights What are you know, the the industry stats, where are people being educated, and what is changing in the industry, that is sort of driving the conversation today, and will be driving the conversation tomorrow. So I always love for people to take advantage of the educational side of events, whether it's a trade show or a conference, so that they really can, you know, walk away feeling that they've learned something, but they're more empowered to take their business forward. And then, you know, we know kind of that b2b. You know, lead generation takes a long time. You know, it's not something that is transactional. It's something that you've got to build, you've got to nourish. You've got to create those connections. And I love going to events, especially ones that you've been to before, because you do start to see familiar faces, right? There's always going to be somebody that you knew that was there last time, you can go up and maybe it's been six months, or maybe it's been a year since you've seen them. But again, you're excited to see them you're excited to have a quick conversation with them. Because you know what might be another few months before you connect with Again, the more you can sort of take those opportunities, take those moments and build those relationships and make them stronger and stronger than the better your business is going to be. You know, again, you're you're trying to create a positive experience for your business. And events give you that opportunity, that advantage that you don't have anywhere else.

Kenneth Kinney 25:21

The great part of them as well is I don't have to remember anybody's name because if they're wearing a bad name, there's a name tag, and you can stop calling everybody sport and pal. But I think lanyard Exactly. I think it's fascinating how each event has its own flavor, its own experience. Even the attendees doesn't matter if it's totally different industries, just to watch people in general the way they function move around, interact with each other interact with vendors that may be there. If the if the show has sponsors, it's it's fascinating to see each of that. But Don, you touched on this a little bit earlier, where do you sort of see an opportunity for companies to improve the engagement because there are a lot of people that sit in the corner at a conference, and then there's ones where the audience attendees are as vested, as the people on stage as often are?

Don Knox 26:13

Yeah, yeah. And I have to say, You just reminded me of a convention, I don't even know if that term is relevant anymore. But it was, I think about that, because there still are companies with convention in their name, but I just took my son to a Lego convention or a Lego show. And he's been a huge LEGO fan ever since he was tiny. And he is about to turn 17. And believe it or not still carves out time in his day to to build things and play with these things. And my wife, and I love it, because you know, he just still enjoys it so much.

Kenneth Kinney 26:52

I got a child, it gives me a great excuse to go play with him and blame it on him. So....

Don Knox 26:57

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That's, that's the way it should be. But you know, you just made me think about that show because the audience was so different and unique. And obviously, the exhibitors in this particular event, were the builders, these unbelievably creative people from all over the world that have spent, I assume the past year building these unbelievable, you know, interactive, in some cases, Lego constructions, and just so incredibly cool. And we've been for like three years in a row and it just every year, are they Yeah, and they cancelled Of course, last year. But it was fun to get back to that. So just speaking of uniqueness and unique experiences on both sides on the exhibit, and the attendee side. But yeah, to answer your original question, you know, I think it is what I mentioned earlier, it's it's really focusing on starting the conversation before you get to the event and understanding that that dialogue is important to the final analysis, you know, we're in the final analysis of what did we get out of this event? Will we do it again, will we spend more will we spend less are we going to scratch it off our list and move on, you know, but making sure that if you've already made the decision to be there, and we all know, between travel costs, and everything else, I mean, you know, these are significant chunks of budget that go to even even the smallest events, you've got to think about that conversation. And again, the community building aspect of it and just looking at it as we are going to try to get as much out of this as possible. But really focus on what is going to happen when this event is over am I still going to be in touch with these people? You know, the folks that I've met that I could see myself, perhaps even being friends with or spending time outside of work with, I mean, you know, we meet some amazing people, you know, at work and at trade shows and conferences, and I've made some lifelong friendships from from doing it for so many years. But again, thinking about it strategically in advance, so that you are clear on what your goals are, you're clear on your messaging, and you're clear on what you know, the outcomes should be. In addition to that, I think it's you know, personalization and making sure that you create a memorable experience, obviously, from a brand or exhibitor sponsor perspective. That's what I'm mainly referring to. And, yes, you've got everybody from, you know, the 10 by 10 booth, which they might have nothing more than a chair and a pedestal in there. And oh, to the three story, you know, crazy booth from the big brands. But whatever it is that you're doing, you've got to try to make sure that at least you're doing something that is identifiable to your brand is memorable, you know to your brand and that you've actually taken the time to understand that you are ready to make an impact that you're not just there to, you know, shake hands and move on that you're actually there to make an impact.

Kenneth Kinney 30:12

I really like when especially with brand events, when it's not just your pageant, to show all your fun stuff. And it's not just all your VP of sales, who's strictly up there from a transactional standpoint, but you get to sometimes connect with the engineers or the customer service people. And that becomes really part of the experience of meeting the person that sends you these bills, maybe the billing department, and you can have a conversation and connect with the brand, maybe more holistically than just through a transactional relationship alone. And there's a real value there. I've seen it quite a few events and been on both sides of that aisle. But you know, one of the biggest issues, Warren, I think when we kind of pivot off engagement is the thing of the lack of engagement with the most famous conference of all time. And that's lobby con, where all of those folks that aren't engaged enough are engaged when they're out in the hotel lobby or bar or the Starbucks at the end of the hotel. And they're setting up meetings, but they're not participating in events. And it becomes a real problem for all kinds of conferences and trade shows, and expos a lot of the ones that have heavy vendors, of course, these kinds of shows it becomes detrimental may not be the right word. But it takes away from the experience of the event for the attendees for the event producers for a lot of different people. But that's not an easy problem to tackle, especially when the bar or the lobby or the Starbucks is a stone's throw from the conference hall. And maybe the speakers aren't great. So how do you sort of help address some of that?

Warren Pickett 31:42

Yeah, and you know, Kenneth, I think is is definitely the the biggest problem facing events today and has been for a long time, it's how do you address getting people in participating in that community, and not just surfing on the the edges? You know, I think a lot of times people don't realize or don't keep in mind that, you know, most events are profitable, you know, you don't see very many nonprofit events out there. And so for these publishers for these associations to produce events, you know, that benefits everybody, it benefits the industry as a whole. And, you know, as we know, and as we've experienced, there are a lot of industries out there that have multiple events provided by multiple, you know, event producers, and whether it's social media, whether it's email marketing, whether it's performance marketing, you know, you have people who should be and will be supporting sort of the best events out there, right. But for those events, to really thrive, for them to stick around, they need the support of the industry. And you know it, I think when you think about the bigger picture, it's that these brands, hopefully realize that, you know that the event is there for the industry to support the industry. But that means that they are part of the industry. And ultimately, these events are helping them as a company succeed, right. So if you're not participating in the event, if you're just hanging out in the lobby, and catching people as they pass down the hallway, you're not really helping your brand, you're not helping your company. If you're participating in the event, yes, you can, you know, provide feedback on the speakers, you can, you know, focus on where you're getting the most value out of the event. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you're really doing something that is benefiting everybody. You know, it's kind of the whole thing of a rising tide lifts all boats, and that's what you're doing by participating in the event. That doesn't mean you have to spend an exorbitant, exorbitant amount of money, you know, buy a pass, buy a ticket to the event, but it doesn't mean you have to purchase a 20 by 20. Booth, it doesn't mean that you have to sponsor you know, the $45,000 cocktail hour. But, you know, finding a way just to give back a little bit goes a long way. It also ingratiate yourself with the event producers, and you'll find that most event producers really appreciate that, you know, they're going to go out of their way to help you be successful if you're helping the event be successful.

Kenneth Kinney 34:34

And I think the more knowledgeable attendees become especially ones that have money to spend, right, it's got to be profitable that them in the audience to really have a relationship that goes beyond just the bar. I mean, I gotta be honest, I was thinking about this before the lobby con if I had two vendors, and one of them was a sponsor and was more invested in the show versus one who just wanted to beat the bar and pick up my tab. Great. I'll have a drink With the abut at the same time, if I go see, you know, the A list speaker up there, and it's crickets in there because everybody's hanging out in the bar, it becomes not profitable to the attendees. And I think that's something that's got to be addressed, I think there's going to be a challenge for hotels. I mean, right now, if I was considering different venues to put on an event, I'd want to start thinking about how close is the hotel bar, because I remember going to an event A few years ago, where went and saw the speaker was not hardly anyone in there watching the speaker, then I went down to the expo hall, there was not hardly anyone down the expo hall, I went to the bar to meet two other people. And there were 1000 people there. And it was insane. Seeing everybody crammed in there. And that's not necessarily the fault of sometimes putting together better content, it's thinking about better ways to structure how somebody gets through the hotel to where the meeting hall or the expo hall is. And it's just it's something to really think about. Well, another thing, you know what I think about this a lot as a speaker, it used to be that people were six months plus going to events, and this is how everything would structure, you're planning out your content, six months, plus down the road, that's changed. And that has changed. I've gotten a lot of speaking gigs where it was a month or even less. And it's you know, you gotta go book, a book, a plane trip, here's, let's get the contract executed, the considerations all done, really quickly done. When you think about the companies that you're dealing with. They're not necessarily taking because nobody knows what's going to happen a year from now anymore. You have another variant of you know, the RTD two variant comes out, who knows, and it changes the whole game again. So how do you help people sort of address being nimble in this market so that they can pull together a great event quickly or planted out with the right strategy?

Don Knox 36:46

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great question. And definitely something that we're seeing so much more of and, you know, I think it's just really staying in touch with what's going on in the in the industry that you're involved in. And just making sure that that, I mean, it's kind of going back to what I've been saying about community building and continuing the dialogue, and just making sure that you're in touch and aware of the changes that are happening in your industry, the, I mean, everybody reads the trades, everybody gets their email newsletters in their inbox. But, you know, is it going beyond that, in terms of really garnering and gathering intel from the folks in your network, to understand where you know, where the wind might be be blowing? Not everybody has time to do that. And everybody has, you know, what they're actually paid for at the end of the day. But, you know, being nimble is definitely a requirement. It's a it's a prerequisite, but not everyone naturally falls into that mindset. And it's very tough for a lot of people and people that are, you know, I mean, I consider myself to be a pretty good planner, just in general. So, you know, if I'm throwing a curveball at the last minute, in any situation, I'm usually like, Oh, God, you know, this is throwing off my whole process. Now, what do I do? You know, but we're all getting better at it. I think it's just kind of, you know, what's happening with, I mean, COVID taught us a lot, you know, for better or for worse.

Warren Pickett 38:18

Don, I think that's a great point is that it's not just about the event industry, Kenneth it, it is about every part of life, we've all had to become much more nimble, whether it's dropping off the kids for soccer practice, whether it's going to a grocery store, whether it's you know, going to a trade show or an event. And so, you know, having that mindset of planning, you know, for the best but obviously preparing for the worst. I think a lot of times that's what it comes down to

Kenneth Kinney 38:51

a great Well, gentlemen, I asked this of all of my guests I didn't get to ask this of Warren back on Episode Eight, but I asked this everybody now my nickname is sharp and swim with sharks as a kid, but I'm going to ask each of you start with you. Don, what is your favorite kind of shark and why? You're not? You're not too far from from a lot of sharks.

Don Knox and Warren Pickett 39:10

Oh, man. You Yeah, what a good one. Yeah, you're throwing me off with that one, even though I should have seen it come and you know, I'm afraid of sharks. I mean, you're a great guy. I'm generally afraid of sharks. My favorite shark that would require me to have more knowledge than the Great White. I'm a real big fan of whatever the shark was in Jaws. I'm a huge movie guy so

Kenneth Kinney 39:38

Great White. Well, you're not the Fairlawn Island or what 45 miles off the coast of San Francisco. So you can occasionally find some great whites here and another couple of months out that way so Okay, Warren have a chi there's not a lot in the Colorado area.

Warren Pickett 39:54

We don't have a lot of shirts here. The mountain sharks tend to stay away from you I would have to say probably a hammerhead, Kenneth in part because I've talked to you about them before. You know, I think they're just obviously unlike any other shark you're going to see in the water. They're just very different looking, but I just liked them. I think they're unique. I think they're cool to look at so yeah

Don Knox 40:18

yeah, that is a culture

Kenneth Kinney 40:20

there. Fantastic. All right, well, gentlemen, it is a special time the show are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're gonna be asked today? I'm gonna I'm gonna round robin these a little bit and I'll ask you each one. And then question five. You'll both answer. Okay. All right, number one, Don Knox sounds like Don Knotts. We're going to talk about knots. Windsor or a bowtie?

Don Knox 40:32

I'm sorry, repeat that.

Kenneth Kinney 40:42

Windsor or bowtie

Don Knox 40:44

Oh, Windsor. I love that. Windsor all the way.

Kenneth Kinney 40:50

All right, perfect. Absolutely.

Kenneth Kinney 40:58

All right, Warren. Number two. Would you rather plan an event in Vegas? Orlando.

Warren Pickett 41:06

Oh, man, it, that whole question comes down to the time of year because of the humidity level and the weather. I've actually participated in events in both locations. I've only planned events in Vegas. Not in Orlando. But I would say based on my familiarity and knowing that there's so much variety in Vegas, I would have to say Vegas, and it's closer to home. Yeah, makes sense. consideration.

Kenneth Kinney 41:38

All right, number three. Don, you mentioned your son's love for Legos. So I'm gonna ask you about LEGO movies. Oh, Lego Batman, or Ninjago.

Don Knox 41:50

Oh, I would have to go Lego Batman.

Kenneth Kinney 41:53

I assumed you'd seen both of them since your son is in the Lego. So yes,

Don Knox 41:57

yes. Yes. And of course the Lego Movie is of all time fave, as well. But yes, Lego Batman. I've seen many, many times and love that one.

Kenneth Kinney 42:05

Alright, number four. Warren, this one's gonna be way too easy for you. Oh, cats or dogs? Oh, that's a no brainer? Well, it depends because you do have a lot of this pet in your house. So that may not necessarily be a plus.

Warren Pickett 42:26

We actually have cats and dogs and lizards in my house. I'm looking at one of our lizards right now.

Kenneth Kinney 42:33

One that hasn't been eaten by the cat. So, right.

Warren Pickett 42:38

Kenneth, I think you know that we do a lot of foster care. Fantastic. We foster mostly cats and kittens, although we had puppies this week. But yes, definitely cats and kittens would be the the favorite. All right,

Kenneth Kinney 42:52

All right. Number five. And the most important question that both of you are going to be asked today. And Don will start with your answer first is biscuits or cornbread?

Don Knox 43:01

Oh. My wife does amazing job with both of those. Ohhhh, that is....

Kenneth Kinney 43:10

Now she's gonna be mad at you.

Don Knox 43:14

I know, right? I'd have to say cornbread. I'm from the south. So and I had a lot of it back in the day. And I still love it. But yeah, cornbread.

Kenneth Kinney 43:22

Warren, how about you helping your cornbread?

Don Knox and Warren Pickett 43:28

Go? Better? Yeah, yeah, I would say the same. Probably cornbread over biscuits.

Kenneth Kinney 43:35

Perfect. Well, Don and Warren, thank you so much for being on the show. Where can people find out more about both of you find out about what you're doing with event foundry and keep up with with your thought leadership in the space some more?

Don Knox 43:47

Yeah, absolutely. You can find us at event foundry dotnet on the web. And we're very proud of our website. So please check it out. And you'll learn everything you'd ever want to know about what we can do to help you amplify your event experience.

Kenneth Kinney 44:03

Awesome. Don and Warren, thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark’s Perspective.

Don Knox 44:08

Thank you, Kenneth. Thank you. Yep, there's a lot of fun.

[music]

Kenneth Kinney 44:14

So there was my conversation with event industry veterans Dawn Knox, the chief of client happiness and Warren Pickett, the chief champion of ideas, and they're the co founders of event foundry, which helps amplify the event experience for brands that need to navigate today's events. Connect buyers and sellers make the most of limited time in an event and effectively extend marketing and communications efforts. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with them.

Kenneth Kinney 44:40

First, events have to change a lot of the changes also due to customers expectations. We want deeper experiences that are richer, but cost is an issue for brands sending employees and hopefully it's the employees who get more engaged with the content learn but also take advantage of the chance to connect with other people moving the needle, though what is a muscle 10 conference anymore, we do miss the hugs and handshakes, but we expect more. And that doesn't always translate to what is being produced. And brands have to challenge themselves, just like they do with their brand messaging and positioning to be something different. It's a real opportunity to differentiate yourself from your competitor, build a community in so many ways, you should take advantage of it before they buy from someone else with better orders. Okay, they won't just buy because of better hors d'oeuvres, but make sure you have plenty of shrimp for me, please.

Kenneth Kinney 45:28

Second is Don talked about strategy, it's a great reminder for you to make certain to take another look at your strategy for your event. He said that we get into autopilot mode. But as events are coming back, your strategy has to better evolve to stand out as well as rethink your own expectations about what the ROI should be for you. Think about it and do it early.

Kenneth Kinney 45:47

Third, LobbyCon is a real issue. Lots of people simply looking to get leads and send their people to events often without buying a ticket to basically hang out in the lobby and set up meetings with buyers outside of the event either in the lobby at a bar, restaurant or coffee shop nearby. But it takes away from the event when those people aren't part of the event, the content, the expo halls, etc. It hurts the event organizers from a revenue standpoint, I just hate that into tertium the energy of the event when basically the business folks sit outside and have no contribution to the rest of the conference. I'm trying not to buy or engage from anyone that's a lobby contest. I hope you won't either there is a value in having the being engaged without only being transactional.

Kenneth Kinney 46:28

Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 46:33

Thank you again for the privilege of your time and I'm so thankful to everyone who listens.

Kenneth Kinney 46:37

Please consider writing a review and letting me know your thoughts on the show.

Kenneth Kinney 46:40

I'm off to deliver another keynote, engage with the audience, and stay away from those LobbyConists. Let's keep swimming and join us on the next episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

(Music - shark theme)