Transcription ****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.**** [intro music] Shark 0:16 Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer. Shark 0:22 Let me tell you about two amazing sponsors who make this show possible. I'm a rather particular shark and only work with the best. Shark 0:27 First of all, can we talk about inbound for a moment? I've worked with a great team at Invoca for several years now. From marketing to sales and commerce to CX, Invoca is the active conversation intelligence platform that enables revenue teams to create better buying experiences, drive more leads, and increase revenue. Trusted by top brands like Dish Network, Mayo Clinic, Mutual of Omaha, and ADT, Greg and the Invoca team are doing some amazing work in turning conversational data into automated action to enhance digital touchpoints and human interaction. Shark 0:56 Secondly, let's talk about outbound. I've known and worked closely with Drips for years. And I hope that you'll take a look at Drips, the founders of conversational texting where they use conversational AI to help you reach customers where they're the most responsive and that's on their phones. Working with major brands like Three Day Blinds, Liberty Mutual, Credit Repair, and Gainseco, Drips is leading the way for some of the biggest brands in the world to improve engagement rates and outcomes for their prospects and customers. Shark 1:22 Thank you to Invoca and Drips. And now back to the show. Shark 1:25 How do you get more PR for your brand in this digital world we're living in today when you research the topic in a lot of the conversation often is built around personal PR and content creation for influencers. But that doesn't work for every business. Think about all the startups where they haven't had someone create an audience for many years. For example, how do they break through? Shark 1:43 Sarah Evans is the founder of seven strategy and sevens digital PR and she's a digital PR strategist, consultant, global brand correspondent and keynote speaker who works with companies worldwide to create and improve their social and digital PR strategies. And on this episode, we'll discuss digital PR pivoting your business model curating 100,000 plus followers PR media relationships what reporters need the doctors TV show consumer tech experts local TV clubhouse vs. Twitter spaces, canceled culture Mandalay Bay shark reef aquarium suns in the bucket in the closing and out on the line, the big glasses and a lot lot more. So let's tune into a sevens PR leader with a shark who's one part digital in two parts Aqua on this episode of a sharks perspective. Sara, thank you so much for joining me today on a sharks perspective. Tell us a little bit about your background, your career story and everything today. Sarah Evans 2:38 Oh, my career story. Why launched seven strategy and sevens digital PR about 12 years ago. And it has been an evolution and pivots over the years as I created an original business model that it's no longer viable or relevant. But what has remained is an emphasis on media relations and kind of the full scope digital PR perspective. So when we are building campaigns, we're not just thinking who's the best reporter but who's the best niche writer where's the best clubhouse? Where's the best Twitter space who's the best podcast or who's the best live streamer, we want to build the conversation across all of those channels? Shark 3:18 Well explain what you mean by the model not being apropos today. Sarah Evans 3:21 So when I originally created seven strategy, it was really of the mindset moving away from traditional PR and helping brands develop their social media voice. Within the first three years, social media had taken off, so much so that most brands either had an internal, or they were leveraging large scale agency support for that. So I had to pivot back to kind of my original skill set of strategic comms and PR but really broaden that to encompass full scale digital support. Shark 3:51 Well, you get a small town now following you on Twitter, I had to look it up. Earlier today. I know you probably don't look at your numbers, just as I don't, I think I've probably have enough followers to be somewhere between, you know, maybe two stop signs in a local diner. But I google jurors, and you're right around the site, the city of Santa Maria City, California that I'd never heard of before. It's north of Santa Barbara, see, if you go there, you're in that 100 plus 1000 range, but so cool. So if you were giving advice to someone who was launching a company today, and they didn't have a big social following, because you've curated this for a decade plus on Twitter, this is not. There's so many startups now. And not everybody's spent a ton of time on one channel for a decade plus, so what advice do you give them to kind of leverage that to start? Sarah Evans 4:41 The thing that's different today than from when I started is the sheer amount of content people need to create in order to really build a following or a community or a fandom on these sites like I look at people who are really avid viral creators on tik tok or Instagram Instagram Live. And behind the scenes, the amount of strategic planning, even minor production quality and producing for those is really intense. I mean, I know the pre planning is really important. But the consistency of content creation and development is really so important there. And you can build up a lot of really large numbers on these emerging or newer platforms. If you really invest the time and content into them on Twitter that where I've kind of built up my following is a little bit slower and more organic, especially when you're a niche area like I where I really am concentrating on PR folks, media. Journalists in all scope of the word comms students marketing, CMOS, you know, I've got a kind of a very niche area that I focus on. So that takes a lot of time, love and care. And everyone else just kind of has to figure it out. There are all sorts of video hacks and things you can do now to streamline the amount of output you can do. Shark 6:02 So before we jump into media attention, I want to ask you one more question because you're on Twitter and you're on clubhouse, which do you like more of the clubhouse or the or the spaces. Sarah Evans 6:13 I love Twitter spaces. I don't know if it's because I'm active on Twitter. But I like to be it feels a little bit more intimate on Twitter space. It's almost like the after show. Like if I go over to clubhouse, it's really big like you're in. Like you're just an audience member, and you're listening. And sometimes you get a chance to speak. But a lot of the rooms I listened in and like there's no way you know, I'm going to speak and I'll listen in the Twitter spaces. It's just so much more engaging. And I really focused my own Twitter spaces on being a helpful resource. We do relaunching the first week of May a tools Tuesday chat, where we're talking about marketing, PR and journalism tools and inviting the makers on to come and speak. And then collaboration corner on Fridays, where people come in and talk about what they're working on. And the entire space helps them promote them connects with them collaborate? Shark 7:00 Well, at least I'll tell you this with both of them. The fact that it is that pop in audiophile, it's a lot easier to be present and talk than it is to produce a blog or something. I mean, I can give up an hour of time that asked me to sit down and write an 800 word article. It's too much. I totally get that. Well, everybody wants media attention today. I'm assuming that's what you're dealing with on a normal daily basis with every company. What does somebody need to do at least to start from a strategy standpoint, before they just go, clamor? We want media attention, because this is a question that I get from people all the time they tell me, we want PR, we want summer media, but where do they need to start with their strategy? Sarah Evans 7:41 I'm glad that you asked us because I was actually just meeting with the startup founder this morning and had the exact same question. He was definitely a national scope story, not local. So I'm approaching it from that perspective. And I'll just tell you exactly what I guided him to do. I said, number one, find out who's writing about your industry. And I said, plural industries. And I said, think about your company. Let's say you were in crypto, you'd make some subcategories of FinTech, crypto, business, finance startups, and have those kind of five sectors, find out who's writing about topics that you think well, this would really impact my business, or, hey, I could really talk to this reporter about X, Y, or Z in the future. So I encouraged him to come up with those five sectors and then start building out a list of 10 to 15 people in each area, you could divide it up between tier one which is typically any media outlet that has 1 million plus views monthly, or tier two, which would be anything that falls below that. And that might be your trade publications or niche outlets, or maybe really popular newsletters that have great readership and viewership. And then beyond that, look at creating a Twitter list of those folks or journalists are on Twitter quite frequently to communicate. So I usually say put them on mobile alerts so you can get real time notifications of articles they're writing about. I said, the number one thing you need to do when you're reading them, if you're using something to writing about or really liking it, just make them private, message them at them build a relationship before you ever have to ask, it's never been easier in the digital age to do that. And then reframe instead of thinking about what I can pitch to everyone in your spreadsheet, wherever you're keeping all of that contact information of those people think about what ideas you can share with them. If you don't have a $10 million series, a funding announcement. What else can you share, to offer a voice, a viewpoint a niche, a topic or idea to give them things to write about? Shark 9:42 Back when I was getting ready for this? I saw you on the doctors TV show. And it was a great story. They labeled you as a consumer tech expert. Your advice and answers were great, they're spot on. But I lean back and I thought you know I know her as sort of a digital PR genius behind this. Not necessarily thought of as a consumer tech expert that some of just the label that they put on it, but it made me really sort of think regardless of how they label you, or how anybody would label a person or a company, or that spokesperson, how do you position yourself for fixing a problem that they want to report on rather than whatever label they necessarily want you to have on you. Because I know so much of the advice is given, you got to niche yourself down, but a lot of times that doesn't necessarily apply to the label of who you are. It's more of the problem you're actually helping a journalist solve? Sarah Evans 10:33 Yes. So it's a great question. I have an interesting response. For this case, in particular, I have my day job as a digital PR strategist and agency owner. And for the past 10 years, I have also doubled as a consumer tech expert. So I've done satellite media tours for big brands and companies. I've a regular segment on Las Vegas now CBS where I packaged together and talk about the latest trends in consumer tech. Using my own expertise I have packaged together and pitched myself in that arena. So I can do those types of segments. But it's taken about 10 years to feel comfortable being called a consumer tech expert. I feel like that was something that took a while to grow into people didn't necessarily know how to label that early on. But it's segments. What I do. So I'm talking about consumer tech, it still becomes a huge source of traffic referral for new business opportunities, because people then relate My name with tech and the PRA do is in tech. So it kind of, you know, brings both hands together. Shark 11:37 So how what kind of advice would you give someone who's wanting to go down that path as well, though, you You said it took you 10 years, and I had seen the other CBS ones, but I think so many people think today that they're going to reinvent themselves tomorrow. And then it just goes everywhere. That's it takes some time to curate, as you said, Sarah Evans 11:56 it really does. And one of the things I talked to a lot of people about is still leveraging local TV and how valuable and that is where I started. I said, you know what they want content. I'm a reliable source. I package things together like a producer, I think visual, I'm not worried, you know, talking about the brands I'm working with. And so I reached out to a producer and said, Would you like some regular content focused on seasonal or holiday driven consumer tech roundups in the concept isn't new or interesting, think about steals and deals, you know, that sort of thing, that concept and package that they're like, yeah, we'd love that. And then what happened was, I would film the segment, but then amplify it for my own channel, but then those brands would amplify it too. So now they're getting this huge bump, you know, in views of content that otherwise would have only remained local. Shark 12:49 And the way stations are owned by larger networks, it's pretty much easy to take that as a content piece and share it with other stations. And then you get picked up in some of the local market. They may be ABC versus CBS. But it's all the same, and it's good coverage. So everybody wants to cut through the noise. And you gave some great advice on really making those connections with people in PR. But as far as having the right kind of content that cuts through, what's the advice you give people today on that, because it's one thing to have the relationship with those PR teams. And really, then there's so much content that people are putting out and you can't amplify everything and and it just becomes trying to get some spaghetti to stick on the wall. And that's not necessarily helpful to a reporter trying to answer a story? Sarah Evans 13:34 No, I think part of it is becoming a student of the social networks where you're going to invest time and really start to look at the algorithm and what content performs well, what you see in trends and read and research it and there are reporters who solely cover social media trends and talk about those things. So if you're new and starting out, it's really fascinating to AB test things and try things out, there's no better time to make a mistake. And I mean mistake in terms of maybe I should have posted content, you know, 3pm insert instead of 3am or vice versa, than when you're just starting out. And once you start to really become knowledgeable about the space you're in, you can perform better. I have a client that's in the video platform space. And yes, he talks about their platform online, but he is also so inundated in the space he becomes such an expert on video creation, what performs well. He shares all of that knowledge plus has studied the platforms where he wants to share and he just has started to like go mini viral in places as he's packaged those things together. And that's really the winning combination. Shark 14:38 And so many of the influencers, especially the ones that on tik tok, that are going viral, the ones that have actual expertise as opposed to just doing something silly. So when you look at influencer marketing today, how do you see it as an aid or? Well, you're an influencer yourself, you know, how do you look at it? Sarah Evans 14:54 I look at it as an evolution and you just use the best word of expertise. I do a lot in the b2b space. And it really comes down to expertise and a voice. And a lot of b2b experts also have built in credibility. Other places, they might be Forbes, contributors and contributors. And I know that seems, you know, a bit overused to do that. But it's still very valuable to brands to say they've been mentioned in one of those places, so they can really kind of package together their influential voice with other outlets that are established. So expertise, plus maybe a more established brand. On the flip side, on the b2c consumer side, I don't do a ton of that. And if I do, it's at a more local level, here in the Las Vegas market. So we'll look for some really nice opportunities to engage different leaders across multiple platforms and help really reinforced local messages. Shark 15:54 So we were talking a little bit before we started recording this, and I call it the beat me type of environment that we're in right now with especially a lot of advice with everybody on clubhouse, who's giving you every expert advice on how to grow your Instagram following in a blink of an eye. But how do you take the advice that's good out there, from what especially your generation and younger have learned on social media platforms, and then take that and apply it to help get the kind of PR that brands really need because it's a much different again, it goes back to not everybody's had the time to curate a big social following. And we get that everybody wants to make a brand more human. And we're buying from Sara as opposed to, you know, sevens PR, we know, that's part of it. But at the same time, you may want to sell it. Sarah Evans 16:39 I think for me, it's been about practice, everything I do, I view as I'm experimenting here and learning and seeing what resonates. So when I see what works, it's something I can take back to brands and use it as a best practice. I also always take the approach of giving first without asking too much. So I know we can be human, and we can be brands. But if you're constantly asking and selling, it just does not resonate, resonate. But then you have to think about what kind of give you're doing. I just read an article this morning in Business Insider about a McDonald's franchise owner who is paying people $50 to come in and interview for open positions. So that's a gift, but he wasn't seeing any results from that. So it's looking at what kind of give is also going to resonate most based on what people need right now. And it's being super mindful about the current economic situation, global pandemic, and things have had to change, even everything I've learned is how to pivot and change in a new, more work from home remote type of world. Shark 17:43 How does somebody go about budgeting for PR? What's the advice and strategy you ask people to sort of look at for that. Sarah Evans 17:50 So it depends what kind of PR they need and want, I'd say about 40% of people who come to me to do some fact finding really need a personal publicist. And that's not what I do. So I have a group of people that I will refer out, it's just a different type of PR, I do think that is referred to as moment in time PR for tech related industries. And that usually museum a big announcement, funding announcement, merger and acquisition. And we've kind of got it down to an artwork, how we do these things now, and they have to have some tech thing. Now, if somebody comes and says, You know, I want a personal publicist, and I want to be on the Today Show, there are nice agencies that do that, and it can run you 25,000 to 50 grand, and you have to think of the flip. That's that's a big number. But what that big hit could resonate in sales for you, there's an actual ROI for that. If you want someone who, you know, is trying to pitch local media monthly, you might have a 3k a month budget. And that guarantees you you know, one media hit in a local market. And what the ROI is it that you might want to want to run a large scale strategic comms campaign, over a period of 90 days, now you're looking at, you know, 40 to $60,000 a month. So it just runs the gamut of what you actually need to accomplish. Pr is so broad, that you have to call it down just a little to figure out where what you want to accomplish. And when I use it under the umbrella of PR is what keeps people coming back. What do you want to do to keep them coming back? Is it that you want more FaceTime with the CEO? Is it that you want more brand story shared isn't that you want customer profile human interest stories out there? You really have to look at what you're trying to accomplish? Shark 19:33 Yeah, it's such a good point on the personal PR, but you still have a CFO who's going to want to measure it somehow. What's the best advice you have for what's an ROI type measurement that somebody should, should at least think about before they enter this space? Sarah Evans 19:48 So here's when we're putting together a plan. We're usually looking at KPIs What are you measuring right now? Is it you know, brand awareness, is it we're doing a complete social strategy messaging rehost. We want to increase views by 10%, you know, month, month over month, something like that, but some of it in the PR realm is a little bit softer. So for example, did you have a mention in a major newsletter that has 120,000 subscribers and we're used featured as a an interview sourcing clubhouse? How do you start to track those the industry is changing yet again. So how do we bring kind of the the numbers based monitoring of that, because now you're putting value with these human interactions? I don't have it all figured out yet. I work with a few clients who are really focused on measurement right now. And one of the things they're looking at is relevance, and ranking of those places where you're mentioned, how important was it in the scheme of things? And how was your brand included in that? You know, was it brief mentioned at the bottom of a large article? Or were you the featured guest on our show for an hour where people heard five brand mentions, which becomes more valuable? Shark 21:06 What is your advice on people, especially from a PR slash, where you're living in a social atmosphere? What's your best advice on dealing with canceled culture? Sarah Evans 21:17 I think, number one, it's being mindful again of what's happening in the world right now. It's a very sensitive topic, because on the one side, it's what what is provoking the cancel. And number two, there's also kind of the apology culture. What are you saying, sorry, for what have you done wrong? What are you going to change because of what I teach my own children, saying, sorry, isn't enough, I need to know what you're going to do to prevent this from happening again. And also being I guess it's about being mindful about owning when you make a mistake, and being very cautious and how you approach kancil culture in general, especially approaching it from the viewpoint of not being in being able to relate or understand because you come from a different background, that it may not be appropriate for you to comment on something. But it's such a big topic, I could probably dive into it for like another hour chat. And I hesitate on giving strategic advice around it. Versus situation. Absolutely. All right. So Shark 22:28 what is the best advice you've ever heard or given on PR? If it was something brilliant you came up with that works to not I think Sarah Evans 22:42 it probably came from one of my original mentors. And it had nothing to do with what was happening externally but internally as a team, to to pop by our office every day and always ask what was the most meaningful part of your day today. And what she did, whether she knew it or not, was build camaraderie and team to a point that we were so excited to talk about the hospital we're working on, it's time to talk about and work with the media and get these positive stories, that we created this almost great PR machine, or work force to want to feel connected to purpose and do better PR work. And I think that is the most important thing, if you have someone who believes in you, it's connected to your purpose, that's when the best work happens. Shark 23:30 We're not going to name names, but what is the worst advice you've ever heard? Or, or? I was gonna say given but of course, you wouldn't give any better advice. what's the what's the worst advice you've ever heard? Sarah Evans 23:41 I mean, I've had clients in the past, were just so over consumed with the metrics and getting a PR hit, that they'll forsake the relationship, because of it. And I focus so much time on every client, on making sure that we really value what's happening and understand when when something goes to the media, that they're not working for us. And you can destroy a media relationship overnight. And that, you know, complicates well into the future with that entire media organization, or that person moves to another spot. And the second one is saying no to interviews because someone isn't big enough, because if you give people a chance, whether it's podcasts or livestream or journalists, they're also going to continue their work. And someday they may be at the today show and they will remember. Shark 24:30 Great point. So, you're in Vegas in the land of card sharks. What is your favorite kind of shark and why? Oh, the Hammerhead. Okay, why so? Sarah Evans 24:40 My favorite, we just like the look, I remember my son. We've got a shark reef here that we used to go and look at and we bought this little, this little like figurine package of sharks and I just remember like, we would always giggle at the hammerhead shark and yes, you my husband or my son would always say because you can hammer and I just read Remember that? Um, no one is gonna find that funny, but that always kind of connected me to the hammerhead shark. Shark 25:06 I've been to the shark reef reef aquarium there at Mandalay Bay. I don't know how many times I love that. So, it's that special time of the show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today? Sarah Evans 25:18 Yeah. Shark 25:18 All right, number one. A little bit stronger or 2003 suds in the bucket. 20 Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? Sarah Evans 25:32 Are you talking about economy? Shark 25:35 No, I'm talking about the Sara Evans with without the H that ruin the SEO. Sarah Evans 25:42 I thought you were gonna go on Khan Academy. So I immediately went to like, we were in Chicago. They were in Vegas. Will go studs in the bucket, because I do like Sara. Shark 25:51 Okay, so she wrote she left her suds in the bucket and the clothes hanging out on the line. It is. Listen, Shakespeare of the South is me. But alright. Number two, one piece of news coverage in traditional earned media. Or 25 articles blog post podcast covered in non traditional media? Sarah Evans 26:16 Da Why do you do this to me? Let's go with version two. Shark 26:21 Okay. Number three. I've always seen pictures of you with the cool glasses. So let's talk a little bit about famous famous people rocking some cool glasses. bondo in those big shades he always wears or elton john. Oh ej all the way each as classes resemble yours a little bit more. So Alright, number four. Las Vegas strip or the Magnificent Mile in Chicago where used to live. Sarah Evans 26:51 Maybe I'll say Chicago just because nostalgia and I miss being there. I can go down to the strip anytime I want. Shark 26:58 Except in the winter. So Alright, number five. And the most important question that you're going to be asked today. biscuits or cornbread, cornbread bread. Okay with authority she knew that one so with butter and honey, good choice. Good choice. So Sara where can people find out more about you follow your thoughts keep up with the on Twitter your sevens PR strategy and more. Sarah Evans 27:22 They can you can just come on twitter at PR sir have is with an age and my bio is basically a business card you can DM me and find anything you need. Right from there. Shark 27:32 Sarah, thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark's Perspective. Shark 27:36 Thank you, Kenneth. Shark 27:43 So there was my conversation with Sarah Evans, the founder of seven strategy and sevens digital PR and she's a digital PR strategist, consultant, global brand correspondent and keynote speaker who works with companies worldwide to create and improve their social and digital PR strategies. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from a conversation with her first, as she reminds us what social channels consistency is the key she phrased it, and I quote, consistency of content and gration development. I mean, that's what's crucial. Yes, Twitter slower, but she's been consistent there for a decade. And she's built a great audience consistently building those relationships. Oh, I wish I'd done the same. Second, everyone wants media attention and thinks they'll bully go out there and get it. Unfortunately, a lot of that simply becomes the spray and pray method with pitches, but she gives some great advice on strategy and how to attain that with proper strategy. And a lot of that is just conversation, say on Twitter with DMS conversation with reporters and journalists, rather than just mass pitches. I had that comment because you can target and you can blast and yes, reporters need ideas and help for stories, but there's a lot of people blasting that same type of stuff. Basic direct engagement, again on social can help you get that noticed a lot more quickly. A lot of PR experts are the ones who have curated those relationships with those audiences. Third, what a great lesson on not getting boxed in with a niche. Sarah's position herself for years as a digital PR leader, but she's also carved out another niche. And that's gotten her attention on a national scale. And that niche is as a consumer tech expert, both driver business so yes, carve out a niche for yourself with your expertise, but at the same time, she's proof positive that you can have more than one got a question send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective, calm. Thank you again for the privilege of your time. I'm so thankful for everyone who listens. Thank you to the amazing sponsors invoke in drips. So let's go make some noise. Some digital noise anyway, and join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective. [music]